Talk:Aleksey Yermolov

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Aleksey Yermolov article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Caucasia (inactive)

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Caucasia, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.CaucasiaWikipedia:WikiProject CaucasiaTemplate:WikiProject CaucasiaCaucasia articles

Biography: Military

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the military biography work group (assessed as Mid-importance).

Military history: Biography / Russian & Soviet / Napoleonic era

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Military biography task force
	Russian, Soviet and CIS military history task force
	Napoleonic era task force (c. 1792 – 1815)

Soviet Union Mid‑importance

	Soviet Union portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Soviet Union, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Soviet UnionWikipedia:WikiProject Soviet UnionTemplate:WikiProject Soviet UnionSoviet Union articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

On 23 February 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Aleksey Yermolov (general) to Aleksey Yermolov. The result of the discussion was moved.

Neutral POV?

No NPOV. I'm no expert on Yermolov by any means, but he has a reputation for being a horrifically brutal general in his campaigns in the Caucuses. This deserves a more thorough treatment than this unsourced haiographic for this "freedom-loving" character.--Francisx 18:18, 12 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Francisx, do you have any refs that claim the Yermolov's cruelty was exceptional for his time, or is it that you apply modern standards of humane rights to the 18th century? In the latter case, your tag isn't justified. --Irpen 18:49, 12 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

From a quick google search, I see this: [1] "The cruelties of Russians under the notorious General Yermolov knew no bounds.... With his army of 85,000 men. armed with heavy artillery, the like of which had never been seen in North Caaucasus, Yermolov led a war against women, children and old people in order to get their men who caused him great trouble by continually coming down on his soldiers in narrow impassable mountain paths.... Russians were brought to settle in these territories so that today about 60 per cent of the population in most of the Mohammedan provinces all the way down to Azerbaidjan is made up of these uninvited people from the North.”"

I know nothing about the source, which is "Muslims Under the Czars and the Soviets" by J.G. Tiwari, Copyright © 1984, AIRP, but the point is that the present article comes across as a hagiography, and not everyone is willing to concede sainthood to Gen. Yermolov. Perhaps a more independent-minded assesment would be in order.--Francisx 20:53, 12 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This is an old fable voiced by Chechen terrorists on their websites. When foreign media ask them, why do you behead children and (mind you) British citizens and take pride at that, they answer: it's because that darned Yermolov learned us nasty things. Pure bullshit and POV. His only "crime" was to bury the islamic fanatics under pigs' remains, which effectively blocked them the way into their paradise and effectively discouraged them from waging Jihad against Christian population. A very effective way of anti-terrorist struggle, which needs to be taken up by US troops in Iraq. --Ghirlandajo 07:17, 13 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the link is POV. But the article is also POV --- calling him a "hero" in the first sentence is nothing less. For the article to be anything other than POV, there needs to be at least a discussion of claims made against him and a discussion of him as a Russian general (good or bad), not as a "hero."--Francisx 18:13, 13 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The link doesn't seem neutral but still, if you add to the article that the N. Caucaus insurgency was suppressed with the brutality, I think no one would object. --Irpen 23:19, 12 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I'll do some reading. Again, I don't know enough to comment adequately, but I'll see what I can learn.--Francisx 00:06, 13 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

...I'm just looking back on this conversation. First, the conflict pitting Russian against Chechen has never, once, been religious on nature for the Chechen side. Perhaps the Dagestanis, but never the Chechens... Chechens have always put the nation over any religious affiliation, and if the latter was used for rhetoric, it was mainly to secure help from Muslim entities. And I have added plenty of the Caucasian view of "Yaarmul", though I could add volumes of more tradition about him... -- Yalens 11:59, 12 June 2010

Is this the official Yermolov fansite?

I think I've never seen anything like this on Wikipedia yet. --84.234.60.154 07:42, 12 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Shamil's Surrender

As far as I know, Yermolov wasn't present and the the guy in the picture doesn't resemble him either. Anyone object to me removing the pic? AllenHansen (talk) 19:09, 26 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yaarmul

I'm interested in finding more about this characterisation of Yermolov as the evil (and almost semi-legendary) "Yaarmul", but google tells me zip. Where can we find some more sources about this? -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 20:26, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The name Yaarmul, yes, is not used much especially in English text (and reading the text, it may exaggerate the amount of its usage), though I think that its somewhere in Charles Kings' The Ghost of Freedom (though the index is weird, as it only gives a fraction of hte pages each item is on...). But the memory of him? Is that really so hard to find? You can just read any of hte books I cited there, they all have it mentioned numerous times throughout the book (well, Wood's, if I cited it, only has it mentioned in one chapter). --Yalens (talk) 21:53, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

...I have found at least one "Yarmul" quote in the Ghost of Freedom.--Yalens (talk) 21:59, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I am very much aware of his reputation (having being formerly married to one of his descendants). Seems my google fu is a little off today; I've now found at least 3 cites that mention Yarmul - [2], [3], [4]. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 22:58, 4 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the extra sources (well, Gammer's Lone Wolf and Bear I already had, though not with me and I can't view the google preview). But you had been married a descended of his...? Wow. It's a small world, isn't it... --Yalens (talk) 01:01, 5 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 23 February 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – Hilst [talk] 13:45, 7 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Aleksey Yermolov (general) → Aleksey Yermolov – revert a questionable move; We don't create two-item dab pages, such as recently created Aleksey Yermolov. And general Ermolov is way more better known than an obscure politician, even judging by the sheer number of replacements in Wikipedia the moving editor made. - Altenmann >talk 16:59, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support. But merely because he is the clear primary topic, not because We don't create two-item dab pages, because we do if there's no primary topic! See WP:NOPRIMARY. Redirect Alexey Yermolov to Aleksey Yermolov. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:57, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.